Mara Lee: I have to say I've tried desperately to be very proper with my kids and teach them the right words for their body parts, because I didn't want my daughter running around in school saying front, bottom, or whatever word. So one day I sat them down and I said, you've got a vagina to my daughter and you've got a penis to my son. Of course, vagina quickly turned into pagina or pajamas now. So now my son walks around and saying that vagina has got a pajama, and I say, have a pajama. So it's -- and my husband cringes that I do believe it's kind of important that they don't shy away from it because I know that how was it when I was growing up, nudity and body parts weren't told about openly, and you don't want people to feel shy or your kids grow feeling shy or coed.

Rachel Royce: They can have effect in them. My boys are absolutely obsessed with their willies and mummy's willies and, mummy, where is your william, was it cut off and all that. Actually it's very ridiculous. I guess that's quite normal for kids to curious, aren't they? But they kind of get embarrassing when they come out with these kind of these things in front of visitors or when they were saying in the playground and there is also this thing about what is an appropriate behavior for them between each other, because they like the way it feels when they touch their willies or penis I should say. Is it appropriate for my younger son be touching my older son's willies, he wants him to, but you know what you say to kids?

Mara Lee: Actually to my son, because he just will happily sit there with his hand on his pants on the couch, just like his father. And what I've taken to say -- do it in private, that's the prime thing and I am told him what private parts are all about. They -- you don't enjoy it from the people. I know what scoop is, just do it private. So he -- quickly the hand will go out and he go back into this.

Ingrid Tarrant: But what's he actually doing?

Mara Lee: Oh, he plays with it, he stretches it, tries to put his finger in the foreskin and just stretches it again --

Ingrid Tarrant: I suppose this kind of -- so I am like to do this.

Cheryl Baker: What is Nick playing with?

Ingrid Tarrant: Yes.

Cheryl Baker: Which we haven't told.

Ingrid Tarrant: Yes, yes. It's interesting that you were talking about willy and you were talking about penis, because that's the thing as well. I find I have to say, vagina and penis, I find so clinical. I like sort of like, willy, fanny, and -

Rachel Royce: What to say for front portion, oh that's fanny.

Ingrid Tarrant: Yes, yes, sort of stuff like that.

Cheryl Baker: My -- say front bottom, yeah. But they know and I tell them from an early stage that the boys' one is called penis and the girls' one is a vagina and I tell them --

Rachel Royce: Oh, they know the --

Cheryl Baker: I tell them all about what happens when a baby is born and everything.

Rachel Royce: --

Ingrid Tarrant: Did you volunteer that or did you respond to them asking you?

Cheryl Baker: I volunteered it, possibly when they were too young to understand.

Ingrid Tarrant: Because they say that when a child asks, it's the time they're ready for the answer.

Mara Lee: Yeah.

Ingrid Tarrant: You shouldn't pass the information at all.

Rachel Royce: But mine are asking about -- I am terrified to try out because they set experimental, they do play with that this whole time. I am frightened if I say well, you know, how you get a baby is willy goes up in the fanny, they'll be trying on their girl friends you know, because why wouldn't they?

Ingrid Tarrant: That's interesting.

Rachel Royce: Isn't it? That six and seven. So I am quite frightened to tell --

Ingrid Tarrant: -- bits, you know, that's right, girl friends with on -- school used to have a table, this is an kindergarten and everything. And there were two-two table. This boy Bruce sat next to me and he used to do that but everybody did, it wasn't sort of unnatural, only because we happen to be in that environment, you see, we are all doing it. He was just be there, like, his hands down his trousers and everything. We always have to -- and it was I'll show yours if you show me mine. So I say, alright Bruce. So he is -- like this and everything and I've turned around. I've got my skirt, as down like this. Well, of course the table like this, the teacher can see straight too. We were -- and everything.

Rachel Royce: Did that pull you off?

Ingrid Tarrant: Not at all. Well, in actual we haven't quite seen enough. We carried on in the playground then.

Mara Lee: I think that sort of a discovery.

Ingrid Tarrant: It is discovery, it is innocent discovery because you can't use that in the way that's going to be dangerous or anything, I think it's childish. That's the thing with the child's mind. It is only capable of knowing that much. It doesn't goes in deeper. As we get older, you get become more learning that, that's what I am saying about. Do you volunteer the information because usually they ask when they are ready to know.

Cheryl Baker: Yeah.

Ingrid Tarrant: And it's like, you can gage that development by the questions that they ask.

Cheryl Baker: I volunteered because wrote it and I did a television program. I didn't wanted them go into school and the other kids, I know you are a test-tube baby. So what I volunteered to them was not, daddy gets his willy and pussy is mummy's front bottom or anything like that. In case he were on the show, and I had to explain to them that what leads into a fertilization, and I said -

Rachel Royce: That is needed to explain in a way.

Cheryl Baker: Yes. It was.

Mara Lee: -- she came out to me one day and said, mom, what's the nail in the back? And I said, what? And somehow she should have seen a picture of an epidural. I said, okay, well that's when you have a baby. Some ladies want to have this -- she said, why not? Well, I said, the pain will stop. She said, where is pain coming from? You know where is penis? I said, well, the baby comes out of your vagina. She said, oh, can I have some milk.

Ingrid Tarrant: She can't go behind it, that's the thing.

Mara Lee: It was easy. She was four. I told, that's fine. Then she said, well, I am going to have the needle thing. When I have my baby, I am going to have the needle.

Rachel Royce: Oh, very sensible.

Mara Lee: Because -- yeah, she exactly. It's funny question. Well, I said, okay. It hurts when your baby comes out of there, mummy didn't have it. But I am going to have it. Right, now where is my afternoon tea?

Rachel Royce: How cool is that sort of pregnancy planning 20 years ahead.

Mara Lee: Yes she is four and a half and she's got it all ticked off. I know but I mean I just thought, I wasn't kind of mock around and say --

Rachel Royce: You come and talk to my boys --

Mara Lee: --

Rachel Royce: Because they can't do it. Someday he's got --

Mara Lee: I think you just got to pair it down to what they can get and when I visited my cousin's boys, I was pregnant. One of them came up to me and said, how does a baby get out? So I just told him as a -- you know, how you've got your private parts, well I've got my private parts. And it was really simple. But afterwards I went up to my cousin and said, I've just told Jamie how the baby comes out. And I said, what do you normally said. Then she said, oh that's one of a special magic from god.

Ingrid Tarrant: Isn't it funny how sort of parents can't sometimes face up to it, isn't it though? It's like it embarrasses them. I feel thus when the children get sort of more curious because it's almost like a big process.

Mara Lee: That's my kids.

Ingrid Tarrant: Yeah, it's hidden, it's like a mystery. I want to sort of discover it more, then they kind of -- and I think you should be completely open with them.

Cheryl Baker: Oh, yeah.

Ingrid Tarrant: What about walking around, making in the bathrooms, do you have any problem with that at all?

Mara Lee: I thought all the time.

Cheryl Baker: No problem at all. But my husband, now that the children are a little bit older, my husband is very aware of -- with him, he always puts his pants when he gets out of bed. And the children funnily enough, see my children are old enough, they are 11, so they don't run in front of Steve anymore like this, and they cover themselves up.

Ingrid Tarrant: Would they in front of you as well?

Cheryl Baker: Yeah, many kids, no problem at all -- together or showers and we cuddle.

Ingrid Tarrant: Yeah.

Cheryl Baker: You know they get into when I cuddle up, and they go, oh we love your boobies mummy. And I am not going to say to them, it's wrong what they're doing because I am their mom.

Mara Lee: And that's the thing. You don't want to repress them and say, they feel that it's wheedle that they're going to -- with that at a school or giggle or do something a bit illicit because they don't get the information or they don't -- you know they're not allowed to talk about them all, touch them all or whatever it is.

Cheryl Baker: Yes.

Mara Lee: I mean I think that is -- I've told my kid to say words and said because I've got a daughter in the school now and I said, this is -- I say it here, don't worry, just every word and she said, what does a sugar mean then? And I just said, what is sugar made? I said, that's what mummy is trying not to say. I said the other word describing it. It was really funny because she'd already identified that you say these couple of words and sometimes, I go, oh, shut up -- I think yeah, just be open, okay, isn't it?