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Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan, the newest American women to get her Master of Wine, sits down with Gary to do a decanting experiment ...
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Gary Vaynerchuk: Hello everybody and welcome to Wine Library TV I am your host Gary Vaynerchuk and this is my friend is the thunder show AKA the internet most passionate wine program and we clearly have—I feel like I'm on the set of Mr. Wizard. We have a lot of going on here, we have a very lovely guest and we have a very intense and interesting show -- Vayner Nation who you are, tell them by your credentials don’t be shy and let's talk about what we’re going to do today.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Okay, great. Well, thank you very much for having me on here I really appreciate it. My name is Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan it’s quite long but if you can say spaghetti you can say Simonetti so it’s Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You’re speaking to a family instead of how to deal with the guy name Vaynerchuk.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Okay, you guys—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Don’t worry.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Okay good. So my name is Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan and I am a master of wine. I am the last master of wine to pass in terms of American, so and the most of the fourth woman in the country to ever obtain the title. So to give you some idea there's only 26 of us in the United States right now so.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And how many in the world?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: How many in the world—270 something but I think some us are dying up now so you know—
Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s like Jedi.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You know?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I love that, I really was the Star Wars fan so if you are a wine Jedi I just love that.
Gary Vaynerchuk: That’s cute.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, it’s cute. So yeah, it took me about—
Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s a pretty big deal job right?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, thank you.
Gary Vaynerchuk: It's not minor leagues bite any scratch.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: No, thanks. It took me six years to prepare for it and it is a four days exam.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Clearly showing why I could never be a master of wine. Six years of editing scares a grandpa.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, it’s a four days and your tested on viticulture, vinification, the business aspects and social issues so a typical essay would be something that you effect of the world isn’t doing enough to address alcoholism discuss. So you would have to write in less than 45 minutes and a thousand word, you know, essay on all the global aspects of alcoholism. And also —
Gary Vaynerchuk: Another reason I couldn’t pass the test because I couldn’t write an essay in six grade right let alone now.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: No, you have to learn. I really have to learn how to write essays because it’s a big huge. And for the tasting exam it’s 36 wines you have to identify the wine. So I suppose to the master, some of the exam which is done in more the restaurant setting and identify six wines.
Master of wines they have to identify 36 wines. So I have a friend of mine who joke around with me saying, “It’s like master Simonetti squared.” But it’s pretty intense so it’s not for the faint of heart but we’re gently very dicky. You know, a lot of uses are very, very dicky, very nerdy we’re a lot of bookworm but you know it made me love too. We need love—
Gary Vaynerchuk: No doubt.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, so—
Gary Vaynerchuk: What made you want to go down that path?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Well, I love science, I've always love science and I've always—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Serious science check?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, on the science check. Yeah, Star Wars, Star Trek I mean that very, very geeky I was one of those nerds in school. And I've always love science and I fell in love with wine when I was working in investment bank in London. And when I was there I was one lunch that changed my life. And they serve an herb crossed salmon and a Swansea.
Now, it wasn’t the Swansea was completely amazing it was just that—
Gary Vaynerchuk: The pairing work.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, with comparing work it was just the—the salmon is a patty fish it was coated the tongue with an oil. And then Swansea serving so high acid and it just cleanse the pallet and I thought, “Oh my god, the chef in the back didn’t go, you know, just throw them the Swansea or not going to know the difference anyway.” There was a conscious decision to put these two things together.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And at that point you were someone into wine?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: No, I had never—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Zero.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Zero, I’d—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Double zero.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Double zero, I had nothing I even know my families Italian we never drank wine so and actually they thought I was acts who insane when I left at the bank industry. Left the six figure salary to go work for wine store at Greenwich. And so they thought I completely lost my mind and now that I pass MW the biggest change I can say that’s happen is that they think this is not a fad anymore they think that I'm actually the stick through it.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Stick to it?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: How long from that—when was this moment anyway?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: That moment was ten years ago, that was ten years.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And that been that you’ve been pretty much focused?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, I needed to know everything. Yesterday became absolutely insatiable, which I'm sure you're readers can test this because from what I hear you know, a lot of them are very vociferous as well as just total geeks about wine which I loved because I love that.
Gary Vaynerchuk: What happen after you—when do you pass the M cap 2?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: In 2008.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And what did you do clear wise after that?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: After, I still work for Randy Quantro USA.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And you have since?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I have since, yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Since when?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: My work with them from 2005.
Gary Vaynerchuk: What's your official title with them?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: My official title is Master of Wine and Spirits Expert. Everyone should have a title like that.
Gary Vaynerchuk: That sounds pretty bad ass.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, pretty good, yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, I like that. I'm going to be Master of the Universe, where’s my He-Man figures? You keep talk and so—let me just—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Oh, you got Thunder Cats going there. I see that.
Gary Vaynerchuk: I notice you notice that. Thank you Matt. I'm going to be the Master of the Universe. There we go.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: There you go, He-Man.
Gary Vaynerchuk: So fine, so what is that in tell in your universe?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: You mean what—
Gary Vaynerchuk: What's day to day like, are you training?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Oh, that’s exactly what I do. I go around the—I have the best job on the planet. I go around the country and I train distributor sales people, shamuses consumers, I go around to train any people on wine. I first, so far trained thousands of people in the industry and tomorrow I actually for Portland Oregon to do some distribute trainings out there as well some in Seattle.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Very cool. Okay, so what have you set up here?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Okay, what I wanted to do with you something a little different not just coming in and taste just champagne. I wanted to do a Myth Busters kind of segment with you.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You do love science?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I do, yeah, yeah, I got to love that show. So we have champagne here and what we wanted to do is show you the whole concept of decanting champagne.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Which is obviously, massively decanting in general though it has momentum?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: It still under done and under value?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Well, its usually debatable on whether or not you need to do, I mean for the longest time people thought okay, you're going to open it up, you're going to get breath. You just sit out there like that. It has nothing because you’re not oxygen that’s getting through here—
Gary Vaynerchuk: It so small.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: It so small the surface area. So in general for wines people go do you need, do you not need it? But for champagne it’s even more controversial.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Its massively.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, absolutely.
Gary Vaynerchuk: To the point where I've been in environment were fista cups have been brought out over this subject matter. It’s pretty intense like special when you get into the nerdom.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: How was nerd as you? But unlike us less nerd people that are not as qualified it gets really emotional?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: It does, it does and—
Gary Vaynerchuk: I'm very big on decanting bubbles and have been for a long time.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Oh, really? Oh, that’s great.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Yeah, but I don’t use that right decanter like you brought here.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, this particular—
Gary Vaynerchuk: So there's ever take me half nerd?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: No, I don’t think it might, it might but this particular type of decanter was created just for a champagne in general because what it does it decreases the amount of surface area that seeing a level of oxygen. And also you see here as well as you don’t have a lot of areas where it’s going when you’re pouring it, it comes out this neck, so you don’t have a lot of air circulating with it there. It is also—the decanter they gives you the most opportunity to retain bubbles. So that’s what they want.
Gary Vaynerchuk: It hence one of my bubbles have disappeared when I decant.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah and if you do this while doing that it—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Now, what do you feel about that, I mean you know, obviously you have a chance so I know for sure to drink all their champagne much older champagne a lot of which to lose bubbles in a big way. Are you down on that? Do you think that’s a problem?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: No, in certain senses if you pour champagne right out of the bottle and sometimes I get too excited and you can do reporting I stick my nose in the glass, I mean yet—the carbon dioxide goes right up to my brain and sometimes you need to wait a little bit because it just too floppy. So actually I like it when you have the bubbles of dialed back and not they actually let it reveal itself a little bit more and that’s one of the couple of reasons why you decant obviously for ration and for clarification. And people don’t realize this back in Maria Antoinette’s Day they use the decant champagne all the time because it was back then they didn’t have a disgorgement as you see now that was about a hundred years later.
Gary Vaynerchuk: I think that back then is by far the most fascinating thing about our industry. When I look at a 1940’s catalog form London option houses and she known go for more than first growth Bordeaux. You start really understanding how much marketing and trends and brands have impacted or industry. I mean I look that at—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Much in Twitting back then?
Gary Vaynerchuk: No, I can't imagine twitting now but I do it. No, but I mean it’s really fascinating, I mean how much and if you look at the modern wine tactics and brands and you take them back even 50 or 100 years ago it shot me, shot on the pop was a non factor of this country. In demand as early as 1975 just not existent people don’t want them. So when I think about that stuff that really is fascinating.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: And things come in absence closing and trends of fashion.
Gary Vaynerchuk: No question.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, so what we done here is I brought one that’s nothing has been to it and then in order to reduce the bottle variation what we done with he have a control wine with the decant so half of this—
Gary Vaynerchuk: So breaking on control what you mean by that one?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: In scientific method when you do something you want to make sure that you have something that nothings been done too so that you can compare it too. So that’s why we have something that just the taste on its own but because there is bottle variation and everything and we want to reduce that in a lot of bottle variation. We take it in the decanter and said, “Okay, we’re going to decant this for about half an hour” so we took it from this bottles but we kept this close so that this could be the control for this.
And so we did the same thing again for an hour long decanting just to see how perception of this wine changes after it has been decanted for half and hour and if that all any changes have been happen after an hour. And some people say that “You know, after an hour it loses all of its bubble why would you do it?” Well, for something like the Blanc des Millenaires this is a Blanc de Blanc and its got four premier Cru and one—
Gary Vaynerchuk: 95 Vintage.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: What the suggested retail of the Charles Heidsieck is what we’re using right now?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: $115.00 of this.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Okay, I mean for the public selling.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I'm sorry not $115.00 and that is $150.00, something like—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Which probably mean we sell for the $180.00 of course that the whole other story for another but go ahead.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: So it’s fourth Grand Crus and one primary Crus so you forgot for the champagne that’s out there, you’ve got -, you’ve got Orgueil, you’ve got caramel, you have Avize as well as -- is the --.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You're getting a real trick here because you know that’s how I pronounce them on my jerseys slang. Okay and so I've had this wine in multiple vintages. Obviously the 90 was ridiculous and—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Actually it was funny because I saw this segment where you had this particular one last where you said it was going—what you called the Casper syndrome that kind of face.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Yes.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: And I was thinking about that I was like that’s perfect because everything that’s going on inside the bottle a lot of people don’t realize all the chemical reactions that are happening inside the bottle.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And I'm sure you do realize that?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I do and actually I've always got it fascinating and—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Clearly.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Clearly and really what's going on is you’ve got these flavor free coursers which are aldehydes and key tones and things so that are coming together and pulling apart, let say with something like sulfur dioxide, so for dioxide when it combines with aldehydes mutes it. So all of the sudden it becomes quiet and it becomes quiet and I think in 2007 when you had tested this it was probably going to its dump face.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Which a lot of people heard and that’s really what you see in a lot of products and what's really ironic help us out here a lot of times wines when they first come out the gate you can taste in that first year and then it hits, it dump paste and I've seen that a lot with a lot of 90—the real vintage that’s really been great from my pallet and what really got me to nerd it up more and more and this is really thought me a lot has been the 95 board open vintage. That’s something really smart for myself to have to give myself. I took about nine producers and I've been drinking them every year.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: That’s a good idea.
Gary Vaynerchuk: For the last—gees, almost like ten years now out of the case of the group up for you, you know and to sell it and bring in the air and just some different producers and it has been magnificent to learn the process to watch so sneak whole my feet 95 the first two vintages where so big intense got all that dirtiness unit audit so grape in the grab. Then for the four or five years in the row every bottle, just different bottle variation I get that too but just like as a rock. And then clearly over the last three or four bottles I've just watch it open up to the last bottle was more open more than the first two vintages but it was like first and second and now eight and nine were the most open. So I think that’s really the dummy faces really fascinating to me.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Well, there's a lot of like I said there's a lot of chemical reactions that are happening inside of the bottle and you don’t know what face your attacking it in, so when you open it up you don’t know what to expect which is the reason my wine is so beautiful and when you have that one wine then you see year after year and how its develop its amazing.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Let me just show here real quick. If you really want to get there and so many to do I would highly recommend finding an interesting wine that can last over twelve to 15 year period and go in through this process maybe you can do it on your birthday or anniversary would really cool until you know buy a case of vintage from you anniversary. Something that you can consistently no joke on the same day drinks the same wine it is really one of the most fascinating. You know, I got to know it up—you bring that the nerd I mean—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, it’s good. —for champagne what you want to do you definitely want something has a high level of acidity and choosing something that let say is a Blanc to Blanc its going to have the highest level acidity.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Do you think the 02 vintage giving what is right?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yes.
Gary Vaynerchuk: I would say they're available it’s got the acid, that’s the vintage.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: It defense on what the producers is.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Always.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: And it defense on how long it’s been age for.
Gary Vaynerchuk: I mean I can make that wine in everyday. Definitely! Money in the bank.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: So it defense on how long it’s been laying on its leads as well. I mean this is been on its list for at least the decade. So the longer that you have it on list the longer that it’s going to last because as it’s laying down on—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Remember the apple side of thing form the other day? Good.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Okay. That’s okay because when its laying down on its list you have a process called autolysis that’s happening so you got this yeast cells that are in there that break open and have all these the seal compound and I'm arthrogenous compound that are being released into the wine and that gives you the two—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Matt, you're loving this ha?
Gary Vaynerchuk: Matt I'm trying to take a note she’s like head exploding.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: That toasty, biscuity where was that which you get from that but at the same time what's going on is all that carbon dioxide that was created in that second fermentation is creating those bubbles. But the longer that is laying down they gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and they gets more dissolve into liquid so the longer the bubbles are going to last wants you just open.
Gary Vaynerchuk: So before I fail another science class in my life I think we should taste the first wine.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Absolutely, okay. Here we are this is the pinch role we want to taste it by itself nothing has been done to it.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Okay.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: And this is a fairly warm but I think—thank you very much.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Talking about I mean temperature champagne.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: It’s fairly nasty actually.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Are you massively against it?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: If I have my brothers I would—
Gary Vaynerchuk: It’s the only wine that I don’t drink at room temperature because I drink almost all of my white wine at room temperature.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Well, what you can do you do find that anything at room temperature is going reveal any hidden—
Gary Vaynerchuk: So much more.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, it’s going to reveal so much more but that acid is going to be—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Any alcohol a lot of times, right?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: And alcohol but the—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Especially in white wine.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: But the acidity on the wine is going to be just so harsh.
Gary Vaynerchuk: But I like that.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Well—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Like I'm—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: If you're an acid freak that you know.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You know, I'm legitimately want the wine to harm me that’s why I like captain crunch. Even though if Captain Crunch it will tear the top a little bit of your mouth I like that.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: It’s amount of sugaring as well.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Yes, but it is also very good. All right, so let's get in here we should probably sniffy sniff this up.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Technical terms sniffy sniff.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Yes, that’s my technical term. You know what's funny I got a quick last there I've almost like a Mars of hand kind of thing.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I get lots of toasty biscuity kind of aromas and some dried fruits.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You know this is where cereal maybe the end and though but this does have like that cinnamon toast crunch kind of thing going on.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I love so you're talking in my language.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Having masters of wines spin to jet bucket is enormous trill for me it just makes me very happy and so many different layers and levels.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I have to actually apologize to my—I have identical twin and I have to apologize—
Gary Vaynerchuk: You do?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I do, I have to apologize to her because she is in the biggest giant fan out there so I have to apologize Elizabeth I'm so sorry this seem touching anything jets but—
Gary Vaynerchuk: I just wish the entire Vayner Nation could just see the smile on Matt face the guy her giant split. So the golden apple component is really dominating my pallet. There's a lot of cut fresh apples.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: There is but what I also taste here as well, you know this you got a lot of led pencil from the Terroir and there is like a string of that minerality that kind of led pencil that’s in there.
Gary Vaynerchuk: To me it’s almost even chalky, you know. To me it’s almost even chalky—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: And you going to get that—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Almost like chalk dust.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah.
Gary Vaynerchuk: But you know—
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: The Cu de blanc exactly what you're going to get from the Cu de Blanc that is the terroir nips coming through that you're getting there, yeah. But the bubbles are very tiny if you take the champagne on your mouth—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Got a little bubbles.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah. You take the champagne in your mouth and for those out there who don’t taste champagne all the time press your tongue up against your pallet and really feel the sizes of those bubbles because the smaller the bubbles the finer the moose, the finer the moose the more delicate the texture which is the higher the quality of champagne. And because it is been laying on yeast for you know—
Gary Vaynerchuk: 12?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, over a decade it’s the very, very tiny.
Gary Vaynerchuk: Now, you know, the sitting on the back end of the pallet is noticeable but not kind of over bearing any shape or form. You know, I feel like they really integrate well and kind of smooth out and then you really start tasting that creamy texture like creaminess.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: You know, I love this one—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Like a clam.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Like a clam.
Gary Vaynerchuk: You know?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: What I really like about this wine is that it’s very tight in the beginning and that’s why one of the reason I chosen this wine in order to do this decanting well, Charles Heidsieck has come out with packaging with the decanter this whole way season—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Is that right?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, it has. But the reason is—
Gary Vaynerchuk: Just like have a plug for big brother there that’s good work.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: That’s good. No! But the thing is that the reason they choose it is because it is very, very tight.
Gary Vaynerchuk: So is this that decanter comes with?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Yeah, that is the decanter.
Gary Vaynerchuk: And how much is the up charges, is there?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: I don’t think, I don’t know.
Gary Vaynerchuk: $6.00?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: $6.00!
Gary Vaynerchuk: $60.00?
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: $60.00--$600.00 for the whole time?
Gary Vaynerchuk: I was trying guys, I was trying. I was really, really trying. Okay, so I got this mentally down I'm ready to move on.
Jennifer Simonetti-Bryan: Okay, we’re going to move on.